Posted by bcbobcat82 on May 7, 2008 at 1:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Whats up with all of this IN-STATE LOVE? Shouldn.t we be going to Egypt and Bulgaria looking for recruits? I just don't know about us getting these Local Boys on our team??? GO VOLS!!!! DESTROY THE BRUINS!!!!!!!

Posted by superk on May 7, 2008 at 1:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What's up with the instate love? I'd say what's up with the ACC love? Why are we offering guys that only hold offers from the ACC? I trust Fulmer on these though. He has seen more talent than me.

Posted by foreverorange on May 7, 2008 at 1:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

yeah that's strange almost everyone from the ACC has made an offer for this guy and no one in the SEC has offered a scholarship except Vanderbilt. But if he can run and catch then I hope he signs.

Posted by pdhuff on May 7, 2008 at 2:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If North Carolina offered, we should take him if we can get him. Some may not have noticed, but Butch Davis is the real deal. He is determined to get NC back to respectability. GT is on this same path.

35th last year told me where our recruiting is currently. Lets all hope the new faces can step it up back to the days of Rodney G who is currently pumping them into Jawga. Once again, its an offensive player.

Posted by WorkinLikeHeck on May 7, 2008 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What's this all about? I though that we didn't have any instate talent?

Posted by jimr07 on May 7, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

workin--no one said we not have ANY instate talent just not very much of it.

Posted by WorkinLikeHeck on May 7, 2008 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Not much of it? From 2002 to 2008, we have had 206 Division I signees from Tennessee. That's more than Arkansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Washington, Kentucky, Kansas, Nebraksa, Iowa, Arizona, Indiana, New York, Colorado, Minnesota, Maryland, Michigan, Oregon, Utah, New Mexico, and West Virginia. Not too far behind Mississippi and South Carolina.

That's about 30 per year. Also, from this 206, we've had 8 5 stars which is more than South Carolina, NJ, Alabama, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and the same as Illinois. 41 of these were 4 star players which is pretty close to these same group of states.

Posted by vol_in_lsu_land on May 7, 2008 at 3:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Your source? Also, it is common knowledge that West Tennessee has little to no "loyalty" or "connection" to Knoxville. Might as well be another state altogether. What percentage of these 206 were from that third of the state?

Posted by WorkinLikeHeck on May 7, 2008 at 3:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rivals.com...don't know the breakdown of what area of the state they come from though. West Tennessee has a ton of Tennessee fans until you get to Memphis which is pretty much a free for all but we have as good of shot as any of the other schools going in there and getting guys except maybe Ole Miss but you can't really compare the Ole Miss and Tennessee's programs right any way.

Posted by marc_ash on May 7, 2008 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WorkinLikeHeck,

We've got plenty of in state talent...it just all goes to GA, FL and Bama.

Posted by midgetangel on May 7, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't care where he comes from. Can he play? 170 seems a little light but I'm sure he'll pack on a few lbs.

Posted by maholt49 on May 7, 2008 at 3:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

With the NCAA looking at our graduation rates in all sports...maybe, just maybe we're offering because they can play, AND make the grades to graduate!!!! The rate we are going the NCAA will be taking scholarships away from us left and right.

Posted by tigervol9802 on May 7, 2008 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Can we beef him up to play D-tackle?

Posted by vol_in_lsu_land on May 7, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Workin.

That isn't a very specific source. Do you have a link that breaks down all of this information with specific data, or do you expect us to believe that you took the time to calculate it all yourself? You named an awful lot of states. I'm not saying rivals doesn't break it down like that, but I haven't seen it.

Posted by volchiq on May 7, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

maholt, to give the football program a little credit, they met the academic standards.

Posted by WorkinLikeHeck on May 7, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

volfaninlsauland, a guy on Volquest posts this information on one of the message board indexes. Someone else with a membership can verify the information I posted if you can't access the site:

http://tennessee.rivals.com/showmsg.a...

Otherwise, you'll just have to take my word for it. I really don't have a reason to make this up. The guy that posts the information is reliable.

Posted by WorkinLikeHeck on May 7, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

State by state breakdown:

http://tennessee.rivals.com/showmsg.a...

Posted by givehim6 on May 7, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

UT offered him a scholarship and he's not a sr. yet, someone sees somthing special in this young man. I do not blame him for taking his time, that just means he is being smart and jumping on the train just to be with his friend, He waints to look before he jumps. I hope in the end UT will be his home. GO VOLS!

Posted by invisiblekid on May 7, 2008 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks for the links Workin', those are some interesting stats.

Posted by invisiblekid on May 7, 2008 at 4:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PD, good point about UNC and Davis. One correction though, Teague is listed as an "athlete", not an offensive player. Thus, he could be switched to defensive tackle.

Posted by spam247buster on May 7, 2008 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

At 5'11, 170 lbs, I sure hope they aren't considering him at DT. CB, maybe.
GO VOLS!!! Beat UCLA!

Posted by jimr07 on May 7, 2008 at 4:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

workin--i would sure like to see that in writing from source other than you. not that i do not believe you, well, really i don't, you would say anything to trash fulmer

Posted by WorkinLikeHeck on May 7, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jimr, that's your deal. I guess you'll have to sit and wonder or just sign up for a free 7 day trial and Volquest and follow the links and see the data yourself. Anybody that has an account can follow the links and can tell you the same info that I provided.

Posted by UTfan4life on May 7, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

come to UT

Posted by vols72 on May 7, 2008 at 5:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey JerkinLikeHeck...its about time you crawled back under the rock you call a trailerhouse...loser/poser

Posted by WorkinLikeHeck on May 7, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I see Vols72's posts consist of nothing but namecalling. I am glad I inspired this moron to pop his message board cherry by signing up for an account on GVE today to call me a loser and others names. By my count 4 of his 6 posts have been about me. This is awesome.

Posted by pdhuff on May 7, 2008 at 5:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ikid, 4:12 tks for the input on our new 170lb DT possibility. I know Chief likes em' quick on their feet and agile and very blockable. He should do fine. We should be seeing the "roid" truck pretty soon. LOL

Posted by volroadwarrior on May 7, 2008 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Imagine this kid and others liking Fulmer and the long term stability of the program. Don't these recruits know that Fulmer should be fired? They should listen to some of the geniuses that post on this forum calling for his head.

Posted by Vol13 on May 7, 2008 at 6:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For everyone dissing Workin' for trying to shed some FACTUAL information on recruiting, here's a thought - if you doubt him, then get off your lazy duffs and compile some of your own statistics to refute what he is saying. I've seen the same information posted multiple times on multiple Vol fan boards and I also have known the gentlemen who authored those stats for several years personally. Why don't you all go log on to Volquest and tell him since he spent hours on end putting all of that information together for your knowledge base that you made a decision in about 3 seconds and without lifting a finger on your own to choose to not believe it. Unreal.

Otherwise, shut your pie holes.

Posted by kceltic on May 7, 2008 at 6:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

vol_in_lsu_land: I don't know the number of kids out of West Tennessee that end up in Knoxville, but we have had quite a bit of quality players come from West Tennessee. Examples: Chad Clifton, Justin Harrell, Al Wilson, Will Offenheusle, Jabari Greer, Chris Donald, the Cottam brothers, etc. These are just recent players. Don't look so much at numbers as at the quality of the athletes that come from West Tennessee. You mention "loyalty"-there are plenty of high school players that would love to play at UT, but they're not offered or recruited. Patrick Willis was one that wanted to go to UT but we didn't offer (and he ended up in the NFL as a first-round draft pick). Most kids in West Tennessee would love to play for UT, but for whatever reason, they end up at other schools because UT doesn't offer them.

Posted by IBleedOrange444 on May 7, 2008 at 6:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not gonna go crying on my keyboard for the mistreatment of Workin here, but the guy actually didn't say anything negative or try to make this about coaching. Personally, I'm amazed and appreciative.

I think this guy will shop around and end up signing with us. I hope so anyway. Come on Teague, you know you want to don the Big Orange!

Posted by KingsportVol on May 7, 2008 at 9:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The 5-foot-11, 170-pound.This kid has to be faster than a gerbil at Richard Simmons house.Don't let this guy slip away.We are down to 37 DB's.

Posted by hglover40 on May 7, 2008 at 9:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

More numbers from rivals team rankings by state -
2003 - 2008 the state of Tennessee had 96 3 star or better recruits. 32 of them went to UT.
The State may have the 206 division 1 signees since 2002, but this list tells me over 1/2 of them are 2* or less.

2008 - 5 * = 0
4 * = 4 (1 signed with UT)
3 * = 12 (3 signed with UT)
2007 5 * = 1 (1 signed with UT)
4 * = 9 (3 signed with UT)
3 * = 15 (6 signed with UT)
2006 5 * = 1
4 * = 2 (1 signed with UT)
3 * = 16 (3 signed with UT)
2005 5 * = 1
4 * = 3 (3 signed with UT)
3 * = 8 (5 signed with UT)
2004 5 * = 0
4 * = 2 (2 signed with UT)
3 * = 7 (1 signed with UT)
2003 5 * = 0
4 * = 5 (2 signed with UT)
3 * = 7 (1 signed with UT)

Posted by hglover40 on May 7, 2008 at 10:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Correction to my last post; it should read - rivals prospect ranking by state - NOT rivals team ranking by state.

Posted by hglover40 on May 7, 2008 at 10:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

State Of Florida 2008 - 5 * = 5
4 * = 43
2007 5 * = 3
4 * = 37
2006 5 * = 3
4 * = 47
State of Georgia 2008 5 * = 2
4 * = 20
2007 5 * = 2
4 * = 18
2006 5 * = 1
4 * = 17
I didn't list 3*; to many to count. I think any resonable person can see that our biggest rivals have much more in state talent than us. Most years they have more 4* players than we do 3*. If CPF didn't recruit from everywhere we couldn't compete in the SEC.

Posted by Bigger_Al on May 7, 2008 at 11:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ACC has edged out the SEC in NFL 1st rounders over the past few years. Much of that is due to Miami and FSU, but Miami is one of his offers.

Posted by mparker on May 7, 2008 at 11:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't care if he's from frogsa$$ montana if he can play ball. Long gone are the days of a football team being almost all from 'in-state'.

Posted by vol_in_lsu_land on May 8, 2008 at 12:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

While it is true that some great players have come to UT from all over the state, I still believe that the greatest talent pool in our state comes from the western half, and that we lose a lot of those players to Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, and many other rivals because the "homer" factor isn't as strong. Let's face it, Tennessee suffers from its own geographic nature. OTOH, Vandy and Memphis aren't stellar programs and don't offer a lot of in-state competition for the best players in the state (like Bama/Auburn or Virginia/Virginia Tech does)

Posted by sjt18 on May 8, 2008 at 3:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks for doing the work hglover40. The insenuation that Tennessee produces nearly the same level of HS talent as the home states of UT's biggest rivals is pure non-sense.

FWIW, FCS and FBS are both considered division I so Tn players that go to Chattanooga, TSU, MTSU, Memphis, et al are counted as well.

Funny the same guys who will lambast Fulmer for signing the #35 recruiting class seem to be implying that an average of 7 4-5* players per year in-state is enough to do better. If UT could get all 7 of those players every year then round out a 21 player classe with in state 3*... they'd seldom have a top 20 class and would almost never have a top 10 class. Even UF gets less than half of their in-state 4-5* players. UGA is doing a little better than that right now but haven't until recently.

Teague and Allen will both be 3* players. If Teague committed, UT's star average would be 3.2... about what it was to get a #35 ranking this year... You know, the average that so many here use to claim that CPF has lost his recruiting ability.

Posted by sjt18 on May 8, 2008 at 3:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, how many Tn players has CPF missed during his tenure... guys he flat out passed on that went on to great things? The only one I can think of is Patrick Willis. Others have gotten away but CPF has recruited them.

That seems to suggest that he knows what an SEC viable recruit looks like.

Posted by sjt18 on May 8, 2008 at 3:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

By my count, 18 of the 21 states listed by Workin have populations smaller than Tn. Eight of 21 have less than half of Tn's population. IOW's, those states 'should' produce significantly less talent but in many cases are very comparable.

But the bigger question as alluded to earlier is how many of those players are BCS level. Of the SEC states, only KY produces fewer 4-5* players over the period Workin cites. No SEC state produces fewer per capita except maybe KY. MS produces significantly more highly rated players with less than half the population.

State populations as of 2003:

California - 35,484,453
Texas - 22,118,509
New York - 19,190,115
Florida - 17,019,068
Illinois - 12,653,544
Pennsylvania - 12,365,455
Ohio - 11,435,798
Michigan - 10,079,985
Georgia - 8,684,715
New Jersey - 8,638,396
North Carolina - 8,407,248
Virginia - 7,386,330
Massachusetts - 6,433,422
Indiana - 6,195,643
Washington - 6,131,445
Tennessee - 5,841,748
Missouri - 5,704,484
Arizona - 5,580,811
Maryland - 5,508,909
Wisconsin - 5,472,299
Minnesota - 5,059,375
Colorado - 4,550,688
Alabama - 4,500,752
Louisiana - 4,496,334
South Carolina - 4,147,152
Kentucky - 4,117,827
Puerto Rico - 3,878,532
Oregon - 3,559,596
Oklahoma - 3,511,532
Connecticut - 3,483,372
Iowa - 2,944,062
Mississippi - 2,881,281
Arkansas - 2,725,714
Kansas - 2,723,507
Utah - 2,351,467
Nevada - 2,241,154
New Mexico - 1,874,614
West Virginia - 1,810,354
Nebraska - 1,739,291
Idaho - 1,366,332
Maine - 1,305,728
New Hampshire - 1,287,687
Hawaii - 1,257,608
Rhode Island - 1,076,164
Montana - 917,621
Delaware - 817,491
South Dakota - 764,309
Alaska - 648,818
North Dakota - 633,837
Vermont - 619,107
Washington, District of Columbia - 563,384
Wyoming - 501,242

Posted by General_Fritter on May 8, 2008 at 4:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Iowa's population is small but it probably does well because there are so many farm boys. You work on a pig farm and it will toughen you up. Also the steaks and pork chops will put you in near fritter heaven. Them boys have lean muscle mass.

Posted by General_Fritter on May 8, 2008 at 4:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

vol_in_lsu_land - it is true that the state's geography puts TN at a disadvantage for Memphis players, but by the same token, the state's geography puts Tennessee close to NC, SC, GA, and KY. However, while close to UT, CPF has to overcome the stay in state speach by the in-state schools.

Posted by sjt18 on May 8, 2008 at 6:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

True General... but again, K'ville isn't geographically close to the most talent rich areas of those states either. Atlanta could probably be a better area than it is. The UGA loyalty isn't as strong there.

UT has gotten almost all of the good players that have come out of western NC since Jimmy Streater. The only fish I can remember that got away are Steve and Eric Streater and Sam Gash. I guess you could count Brad Johnson too.

Posted by pdhuff on May 8, 2008 at 6:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Morning sjt18-Sometimes you have to do something with these 2*-3* 4* players when you get them. I think the true test of a coach is -- Are they truly better skill-wise than when they 1st arrived?

The answer would be subjective somewhat akin to the Championship Banners they hang or don't hang and moreso do they get the sheepskin?

And my standard, how many outings did they have where they didn't compete and looked totally lost?

Up and down effort is the coaches responsibility.
Its called motivation, even at $38,00.00 per week.

$38K would keep me motivated.

The sign says "I will give my all for Tennessee today". We should expect NO less, ever.

Posted by sjt18 on May 8, 2008 at 7:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Agree pdhuff. CPF has put alot of guys in the NFL so I believe both the talent and player development has been there. I tend to think CPF manages practices well and does very good game prep. IMO his fatal flaw or that of the staff he's surrounded himself with has been game day.

As a rule, he's competitive every week. Yes there are exceptions like UF and Bama last year but those aren't the norm. So if you can get a team to the point of victory but not past it against the best competition... that sounds like a game day problem to me. Yes. Coaching problem.

I think the guy is trying to change. Consider how many doubters there were concerning whether CPF would actually let Clawson change the O. DC has changed everything except the color of the jerseys. The pinch point is whether CPF can or has changed enough in time to save himself and/or the program.

Posted by richvol on May 8, 2008 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Down to 37 DB's" that's unfortunately true Kingsportvol. We offer and sign too many 5'8" to 5'11" kids that weigh 170lbs every year. There's a ton of them on the team already.

We should be focused on offering 30 or so 6'3" to 6'6" kids that weigh 250 or above a free ride. The reports that we get indicate that we offer 8 or 9 a year. You get what you focus on and that's where our aim needs to be. There are at least 100 of these size kids in every graduating class and those are the ones that we need to get and develop.

Football is a game that's won in the trenches... period.

Posted by Vol13 on May 8, 2008 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Disturbing that a 2* or 3* prospect tells you they will "think about it" when you are State U, they have no other SEC offers except Vandy, and they have a teammate and friend already committed to you. Wasn't too long ago that a kid such as this would have given their left arm to be offered by UT. Now, they aren't even committing on the spot.

Posted by KingsportVol on May 8, 2008 at 10:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well said richvol.

Posted by volboy81 on May 8, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol in LSU Land: West Tennessee is VERY loyal to UT!!! They just dont get the credit for it since theyre so far away!

Posted by pdhuff on May 8, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

richvol 7:19am- That's been my mantra for 25 years. Offense sells tickets, defense wins games.

It seems every article is about another offensive player. There are a few of us who get just as big a kick out of a sack or slobberknocker tackle as most do from a 4 yard out. A 13 of 17 stat for 61 yards doesn't do much for me.

Defensive tackles control the game. Mediocre ones means you're getting run over. They're just not glamorus. We don't appear to have them. Good post.

Posted by WorkinLikeHeck on May 8, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt, first off no one is insinuating that we have as much instate talent as our biggest rivals. My post was merely stating some facts that we do have talent in the state of Tennessee when people claim that we have none. Sorry that you believe that this is "pure nonsense".

The 06 class had alot of talent and finished top 5 in the country and had 11 guys from in state. Nobody is saying that we can rely alone on instate talent. Over this same time period, we are 11th (ahead of Vandy) in regards to the # of signees that come from instate, meaning that we sign less of our talent from instate than most other SEC schools. I think about 30% or about 44 players of our signing class from 02-07 came from Tennessee. There were 81 other guys that signed with other SEC schools over this same time period. The guy who compiled the numbers said that over this time period 208 players from the state of Tennessee signed with BCS schools. There have been years where we have signed like 1, 2, and 3 players from instate and teams like Auburn and Nebraska signed more Tennessee players than Tennessee has.

Posted by thesavageorange on May 8, 2008 at 12:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Teague will most likely end up a Vol.Our biggest competition will be Miami.He grew up a huge fan of the Canes, but doesn't really want to get that far away from his family.

Problem w/ DT's is most are staying in-state.Out of all the top 250 DT's only 1 out of about 7 commited so far have commited out of state, Tyler Stockton of NJ to Notre Dame.In Tennessee there is only 3 DT's garnering any attention from BCS conference schools.None have offers ,and only 1 is not undersized, Curtis King at 6'3 270lbs.

King would commit now,IMO, if the Vols offered.We need to sign about 5-6 DT's in my opinion so I don't know why they haven't.

On a positive note:If Montori Hughes scores well enough on his entrance exam, he will enroll in July.

Hughes:"I love playing football. I've played all my life. I just love the intensity of football. I get hyped up when I play football. There's something about me, I just love it. I love going out there having fun, hitting people. I mean, I've laid hits on the quarterback. I broke a quarterback's helmet. That was my favorite hit. It was against Oakland. Sonny Gray (Smyrna's All-State quarterback), that was a good hit against him. It took him a couple seconds to get up."

Posted by hglover40 on May 8, 2008 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Workin...
Where is he pulling those numbers? 208 players from Tennessee signing with BCS schools seems high to me. I looked at rivals rankings by state and counted only 96 3* or better recruits from TN. That is 96 from 2003 - 2008. I can't beleive BCS schools are signing 2* players from TN.

Posted by invisiblekid on May 8, 2008 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18, regarding your 7:11 post, I agree that Fulmer has ventured away from the course on the offensive side of the ball. However, it could be argued that this was by necessity as much as an open willingness to do it. There weren't that many former Vol offensive coordinators left out there for him to snatch up. And we both know that offense hasn't been the main culprit to any shortcomings in the team the past couple of years. The chuck and duck may not have been glamorous, but, more often than not,it put points on the board. It was the defense that has been giving up historically bad numbers and I hope the lack of change on that side of the ball proves to be the right move.

Posted by invisiblekid on May 8, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks for the update on Hughes SavageO. In lieu of All-SEC caliber players at DT, maybe the Vols can muster up enough bodies to wear the other teams down.

Posted by WorkinLikeHeck on May 8, 2008 at 3:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

glover, I don't know. I though it sounded high and the went back and looked and only found about 154 guys from the 2002 through 2008 signing classes. But he only has 2 star players listed from the 08 class for whatever reason. It's not like there were no 2 star players from 02 to 08 in Tennessee. Guys like Jason Hall and Bo Hardegree that were 2 stars are not part of the 154 that I was able to count. There were 11 2 star players this past year that signed with BCS schools.

Posted by thesavageorange on May 8, 2008 at 4:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

invisiblekid , No problem.I think he is going to be a pleasant surprise.He's big, he's mean, he's relentless.

Posted by pdhuff on May 8, 2008 at 5:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

savageorange 4:20 -Big, mean, relentless, are you speaking of TDTN or Dupree?

Posted by thesavageorange on May 8, 2008 at 6:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

pdhuff ,Both!

Posted by pdhuff on May 8, 2008 at 9:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What good thing about GVXTra is if you sneeze, someone will tell you the ratio of your age group posibilites. (SIC)?

We all love the Orange, but some among us can explain away Fla and Bama last year. SEC East trophy still hasn't arrived. Some of us are stuck hard in the lack of effort, not as much the lack of talent.

But what do we know, we're either blindly happy or (per sjt18) not forgiving enuf of Phil's $38,000.00 per week results. Tenth year, 10th--- approaches!

We go forth to battle on Sept 1. That is a fact. The results will either be in CPF's crown or in the bunker with him. Incomin"!

That, too, is also a fact.

Go Vols!

Posted by sjt18 on May 9, 2008 at 3:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

savage, I'm really curious as to why UT hasn't gone ahead and pushed for King. He has the right measurables and that's really about all that translates from HS DT to college DT. Most OL's and DL's in HS that have the physical ability to play BCS never face anyone capable of challenging them. He also plays in an area where UT really needs to establish more credibility.

Between him, the kid in SC UT seems to be in good shape with, Hall, and the other JUCO DT Rivals reported on... that would make a good foundation. UT could then push for some of the more highly rated players as bonuses.

Have you heard anything positive from any of those guys? I know Ming seems to be Bama's to lose but mitigating that could be the big DT class they landed last year and whatever influence Wes Brown can have. The only other one I've heard of that is really has UT on his scope is Sentimore... and that's a long shot.

With DT's, you either find them or build them... UT better start building.

Posted by sjt18 on May 9, 2008 at 3:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

pdhuff, forgiveness has nothing to do with it. The reality is that CPF had a 5 or 6 year downward spiral that ended with a 5-6 season. Whatever was said in the privacy of MH's office... CPF had to unload Sanders and make some personal changes. The one thing he has let slip is that someone challenged whether his heart was in it or not.

The only things that should count in employment are the standard, the process, goals, and what is deemed to be the best course for success. If MH is any kind of executive, I'd guess that he's somewhere in the "improvement process" with CPF. They should and probably do have mutually understood standards for performance. If MH's public hints are an indication, your worry over whether CPF has been "forgiven" is misplaced.

Posted by sjt18 on May 9, 2008 at 3:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW, I'm guessing based on what limited info has come out. Maybe the powers that be are committed to Fulmer blindly regardless of results... but I sincerely doubt it.

Posted by thesavageorange on May 9, 2008 at 7:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18, I don't think Sentimore is a longshot.I have read every update on him and one thing always comes up.Playing time.I personally think LSU is our biggest competition for the 4*.We were one of the first to offer, and he seemed pretty flattered.Here is what he said about LSU:

If I do get an offer I will definitely consider LSU, but I mean it would be hard to break into the starting lineup there because their depth (on the defensive line) is large. If the offer does come from LSU don't get me wrong, they are definitely in the mix."

I am wondering if King has academic issues at this point.I do think our next best shot is Chris Bonds from SC.After that it's probably Corey Adams of AZ.Adkins is working very hard on him.

Posted by pdhuff on May 9, 2008 at 9:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

savageorange - get out there and find some DTs.

Now......

Posted by douglasawilliams on May 9, 2008 at 10:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Invisiblekid,

Couldn't agree with you more. The last two years Cutcliffe did his job for the most part and usually scored enough points to give the team a reasonable chance to win (UF AND UA games being the exception). Now you can call Cutcliffe's offense all you want but he averaged 32.5 points a game last year and that's good. I have high hopes Clawson's offense will be even better but I would settle for 32.5 points a game any old day. That said can this new offense move the ball consistently against great SEC defenses Florida and Auburn will certainly have is unknown. The defense has been weak and it was really evident with Florida piling up 600 yards of offense on us and Alabama about as much. I do believe the defense will be improved with speed at the DE position and hopefully some DT's can actually fill some holes and stop the run. Losing a great LB like Jerod Mayo hurts but Ellix Wilson can help and we all expect the secondary to a definite strength this year.

Posted by pdhuff on May 10, 2008 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18 3:35- "only things that should count in employment are the standard, the process, goals and what is deemed the best course for success".

I find it strange that in referring to a employee with over 15 years service you left out-- ACCOMPLISHMENT......recent by nature.. 10 years by truth.

How long must the heathern rail, a free pass must go on forever and ever and ever!

Be well.

Posted by sjt18 on May 12, 2008 at 3:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

pdhuff, accomplishment is implicit in "standard". If you don't accomplish the standard then you shouldn't keep your job.

I don't get to set the standard and neither do you... as far as I know. I've said what I think it should be. We'll just have to wait and see if MH and the powers that be have a standard that high or if fan pressure can push them up to that level.

Posted by sjt18 on May 12, 2008 at 3:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

douglas, nice post.

A couple of things that would really help is if Clawson can actually get the run game going and if Gerald Williams can play MLB instead of DE.

I've heard it both ways on Williams. Some guys who supposedly know what they are talking about say there's no way he plays MLB in Chavis' D. Others have said he's been told he'll play MLB and will probably take the job away from Wilson at some point.

Posted by sjt18 on May 12, 2008 at 3:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

savage, I was actually talking about Washington from SC. I know he's listed as an OL prospect but he sounds like a DT to me in college.

Posted by sjt18 on May 12, 2008 at 3:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW, pd.

If we look at "accomplishment" with CPF... then you are going to justify having him for quite awhile longer if you compare him even to the better coaches. You look at his whole career- he's successful by any reasonable standard.

If you want a "what have you done for me lately" approach... then you have to set goals and benchmarks with neither past failures or successes being a current factor... they cancel out. You cut a guy loose without doing that and you lose all credibility.

Posted by TouchdownTennessee on May 12, 2008 at 7:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Kingsport - Richard Simmons is gay? Who knew?

Posted by pdhuff on May 12, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

so sjt18, 10 years of no rings is fine with you.

Just wanted to be sure.

He has no accomplishment with SEC titles in nine years, any whay you spin it. He has a losing record vs 6 of the 11 coaches currently in the SEC, any way you chose to view it.

Be well.

Posted by sjt18 on May 13, 2008 at 1:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

pdhuff, why do you always drop back to that old straw man? Hopefully no one accepts that UT hasn't won a championship in NINE years considering how close they've been on numerous occasions... always the bride's maid.

You might as well deal with reality and what is reasonable to expect from this point. If CPF were going to be fired for going 5-6, 2005 was the time to do it. If CPF were going to be fired for not winning the SEC, the time to do it isn't after he made the CG with a team that shouldn't have.

Any way you spin it, he's taken UT to the SEC CG in 4 of the last 7 years, won about 75% of his games, won UT's only NC since Neyland, beaten Richt 3 of the last 4, beaten Spurrier something like 4 of the last 5, yada, yada, yada.

You can tit for tat with the guy but unless you parse his "accomplishments" to suit your pleasure you only have two choices. Accept he's had a successful career or accept that there has to be a process. Just deciding it has been too long isn't a process. Like with anyone else, the guy deserves to be told (privately) that his performance isn't to expectations and to be given time to turn it around.

I don't know exactly what earth quake would have to take place otherwise... but the constant whining and carping isn't helping anything. It isn't tearing down Fulmer so much as the program.

Posted by sjt18 on May 13, 2008 at 1:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW, the losing record thing is a crock and you know it. Neither Saban nor Spurrier built their record against CPF at their current school. He's played Tuberville like 3 times, right? Two of them in the same season against perhaps the best Auburn team ever.

The only SEC coach he hasn't beaten is Meyer, right? He's been competitive 2 of 3 years but still lost. Does that make Richt a bad coach too? Didn't he get beaten by Zook and Meyer until this year? Is Spurrier beating Meyer?

Posted by pdhuff on May 13, 2008 at 5:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18 - 2nd place is still 2nd place on the scoreboard. There are no light bulbs for effort or close or should-coulda.

I think we have become stale (25 years since Tenn hired OC outside the "family" - Walt Harris) and recruiting is in free-fall. Is Spurrier beating Myers, Is Phil beating Miles?

The AJC picked us 3rd in the East which is 5th or 6th (as one views it), middle of pack and the epitome of mediocre. I feel that's where we're going to finish. You don't.

Should we pound UCLA, I think we have a shot at 8-4. Lose to the Bruins. enter the bunkers.

Be well.

Posted by sjt18 on May 13, 2008 at 6:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Recruiting isn't in a free fall. That's a patently false statement. UT had one "bad" class this year. That class had Poole who Hubbs has already acknowledged was underrated by Rivals and as I mentioned long before the rankings were final- 2 or 3 more underrated guys. It had Morley, Warren, and Faison who didn't count toward the ranking but could easily be the best 3 pick ups anyone in the SEC got.

Fulmer has played Miles 3 times if I remember correctly and is 1-2. One game he played with a back up QB, right? Another game he lost by 7 to a team that thumped tOSU in the NC a few weeks later... Is that really what you want to complain about?

FTR, I don't know where UT will finish. I hate it but UF probably has the best team in the East and the best schedule. If you hadn't noticed, the AJC writers have slagged long and hard on that red kool-aid... in spite of having no proven WR and a terrible schedule.

Second place is second place... and still better than 10 other teams.

As you know, I think this has to be the year for CPF. He loses too much if it isn't.

Posted by pdhuff on May 13, 2008 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18 - 35th is a free-fall drop. It is patently false to keep portraying Fulmer as a top coach. He isn't anymore and has slipped badly.

The newer coaches have eaten his lunch, although I doubt you'll ever admit it.

What is false is your hope.

Selah.

Posted by sjt18 on May 13, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

pdhuff, 35th is an aberration... if they finish >30th for a couple of years... that's a free fall.

I don't know how Fulmer fits in- history will tell when he hangs up his whistle. I haven't portrayed him as anything more or less than his record says he is. Nonetheless facts are stubborn things. Record wise- he compares to the best in college football. He's won or tied in the SEC East 4 of the last 7 years. Meyer has won it once in 3 years. Richt has won/tied it 4 times as well.

He's eaten Richt's lunch the past 4 seasons. He's eaten Spurrier's lunch since the NC year. He's failed to beat UM and got thumped hard last year.

Most of you would argue that he's done this with LESS talent than UF and UGA.

He has flaws and I've admitted that many times... when a guy stays around that long you get to know his flaws more so than say a Saban or even Meyer.

If my hope is false I'd rather enjoy at least that pleasure rather than wallowing in misery over something that is beyond my... or your... control. Barring something unforeseen, CPF will be the HC at UT for the 2008 season. But... how is it a false "hope" when I've admitted that I don't know how it will turn out this fall? How is it a false hope when I openly speculate about things that could undo Fulmer? How is it false hope when I've consistently said he shouldn't survive if he doesn't continue to improve?

Posted by pdhuff on May 13, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too.

We choose to disagree over what is acceptable. I say Phil is not earning his keep. You are satisfied with his body of work or you would be calling for a change now. Not in a year or two or spin how's he has one quality win a year, etc. It is not "wallowing" when its the TRUTH which some choose not to accept. If its misery, its on Fulmer's watch! Some recognize it as reality.

Even a mother hen lets her brood go when its time. Phil has not recognized its past time.

Newer innovative coaches are passing him by and defeating him in head-to-head contests. He will not field a top-10 team nor will he play in a BCS game is my estimation. Chief is already on a pension per his results, whatever the reason.

Sadly, nothing matters nor is remembered but the score. To wit, over 300 posts for a BBall point guard, less than 25 for 57 Seniors graduating.

Year after year after year, no rings, no BCS, no top 10. Truly staying the course. Keep stirring the koolade. Your all-out defense is admirable. At least we know we we are headed.

Posted by pdhuff on May 13, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WD40 - I think they meant "as hired". Walt was not new in 1988, he was new in 1983. Good article at Tennessean.com- Click on sports read SEC Preview.

Posted by BigOrangeVol on May 14, 2008 at 12:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Out of 300+ DT's that are listed in the 2009 class only 6 are from Tennessee and none are rated on Rivals or Scout.

Blakemore (Whitehaven) - ?

Carrethers (Brentwood Academy) - Vandy, MTSU.

Dabney (Brentwood Academy) - Bama, Auburn, UConn, GA Tech, Louisville, Ole Miss, MS St, Rutgers, UT, Vandy.

King (Trezevant) - Illinois, UK, Louisville, Ole Miss, Memphis, UT

Smith (Maryville) - Bama, Auburn, LSU, Memphis, So. Car, UT, MTSU

Smithson (Riverdale) - Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisville, MTSU, UT, Vanderbilt.

The only DT's that I see we've even offered are:

#15 Darrington Sentimore (Destrehan, LA) - Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Colorado, Mississippi, Tennessee, Texas A&M

#32 Raynard Randolph (Brandywine, MD) - Connecticut, Georgia, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Tennessee, West Virginia

#38 Anthony Orr (Harvest, AL) - Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, Mississippi State, Tennessee, UCF

25% of the Top 30 DT's are in Florida.

Posted by sjt18 on May 14, 2008 at 3:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

pdhuff, the TRUTH is that CPF will be the HC at UT this fall unless something unforeseen happens.

No. The fact that I don't believe a change is in order right NOW does not mean I'm satisfied. I've written it so many times you could probably recite it... I think he has to continue to improve. When you make it to the CG one year, there are only a few ways to improve on that.

I've also said that he just about has to get it done THIS YEAR. He will lose too many key players after this year while UGA will come to maturity. UF's 2009 will depend on which players go pro.

Posted by pdhuff on May 14, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18 - good morning. Which is it- "You're not satisfied" but "you don't think a change is in order"?? Is that like a "little bit pregnant"? "He's the coach"? That's what causing the uproar.

Is that having it both ways? So if you don't think it needs changing, that expresses to me a very large degree of satisfaction. You should be a politician.

That means you've accepted not winning the SEC or qualifing for a BCS bowl is ok. That's the message sent to many, whether you meant it or not. For nine straight seasons, now.

I guess it comes down to standards. He has no rings since 1998. That is a fact, accepted or not, spun or not, "improving or not", period.

"Just about has to get it done this year". Man, I felt that way 4 years ago. And on we go, staying this same medicore course, job being saved grudgingly by Mark Richt. Its hard to take with the millions being poured into the Orange compared to what comes out. The grade is a C- in these quarters. $38K per week to lose to 6-loss Bama!! 50 to KY, win or not! Fla...

We'll see soon how much this "improving" is going. If you have a flat, fix it, don't wash the car. It'll look better but you're still in the same place. We can only hope.

Feel better now, be well.....

Posted by sjt18 on May 15, 2008 at 4:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not satisfied with my youngest son's efforts in school... but I'm not ready to disown him... yet. I'm not satisfied that CPF is performing where he needs to... but I'm willing to see if the changes work or not.

Fulmer has won at UT. He has recruited competitive talent to UT. We both agree that his performance dropped off and is not acceptable. He HAS made changes to staff and his own behaviors. I think it is safer to see if those changes complete a turnaround BEFORE UT jumps on the coaching carousel.

You seem to think the risks aren't significant or that things can't get worse. UGA, Bama, UF, Aub, and LSU have BETTER recruiting situations than UT... and all have had long dry periods while searching for "the guy".

There simply aren't that many coaches out there that can do the two things required at UT: a) compete with the best coaches in the country week in/week out and b) recruit great talent to a school without a great recruiting base and that is located 7 or 8 hours the most talent rich area in their home state.

I've mentioned it before but the only guy I know of that fits that bill is Dan Hawkins. There's no guarantee that any amount of money would get him away from Colorado. Anyone else would be a very, very high risk. Honestly, I don't think Meyer, Richt, Saban, Tuberville, or Spurrier could do any better and am certain that Miles couldn't.

Posted by pdhuff on May 15, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18 - the biggest "risk" is what we're doing. Nothing.

We replaced an OC because one left. No other reason. Family. We're keeping a DC. Family.

How do you know they're aren't better coaches? That statement says you feel Fulmer is the best. His results say otherwise. Your statement suggests we can't do any better than Fulmer!!!!

"Risks" - We're taking no risks muddling along out of BCS games and out of the top 10, that's for sure. Make fun of Bama, but at least they recognize problems. Many Dawg players are from out of state, for example. Recruiting "base" is the nation, if yu're not too lazy to go after them.

These days everything, including sports demands constant review and reaction or you'll be left far behind in this competitive world. You know this.

It begins with material (recruiting) and then managing (coaching). We're behind in both areas.

I liked the "Fulmer HAS won at UT". Really. But take a second and reflect on the glory of 600 yds by Fla, lost like a goose effort-wise vs Bama and others last season. Not HAS but this is NOW.

Tenth year-same results and it will go on until Mr. Haslam or Thornton pick up the phone. Which may be sooner than you think. As I've said, if it waddles like a duck.......